And we know what all the angels are doing according to Jesus!
“Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.” – Jesus Luke 15:10
1LOVE1GOD.COM
Prolife atheist turns to Jesus!
And we know what all the angels are doing according to Jesus!
“Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.” – Jesus Luke 15:10
1LOVE1GOD.COM
1love1god.com 
yep, atheists can be stupid too and join cults. that doesn’t make the cult true.
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What is your definition of a cult? Take care for now…
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This:
“1
: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (see SPURIOUS sense 2)
also : its body of adherents
the voodoo cult
a satanic cult
2
a
: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (such as a film or book)
criticizing how the media promotes the cult of celebrity
especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b
: the object of such devotion
c
: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
the singer’s cult of fans
The film has a cult following.
3
: a system of religious beliefs and ritual
also : its body of adherents
the cult of Apollo
4
: formal religious veneration : WORSHIP”
merriam-webster dictionary.
Your religion is a cult. We have all of the classics in a cult, a single person as the focus. this person saying give up all you have for the cult, including abandoning your family. This cult leader also says to cut your genitalia off as the best way to follow the cult.
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OK, if I allow you to quote from Mirriam then I think it is fair for me to quote from chatgpt as a somewhat “nuetral” source in response.
Is Christianity a cult?
No, Christianity is not considered a cult. Christianity is one of the major world religions with a long history, diverse traditions, and millions of followers around the globe. It emerged from the teachings of Jesus Christ and encompasses various denominations, including Catholicism, Protestantism, and Eastern Orthodoxy, among others.
Cults, on the other hand, typically refer to small, isolated groups with distinctive beliefs and practices that are often considered outside the mainstream of society. Cults tend to be characterized by authoritarian leadership, manipulation, and the exertion of undue influence over their members.
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It’s Merriam, not Mirriam. Funny how ChatGPT is not neutral at all, but nice lie.
These supposed AIs simply regurigate what they find on the web. There is no way to konw what it says is true. Since there is a lot of christian lies on the web, that’s what it spews up, those baseless claims.
Christanity is a cult and started as a cult, even per your silly chat gpt nonsense. Those verses I cited from your bible show this quite well.
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I agree with you and that is why I put “nuetral” in quotes. But it does go to show that many disagree with you that Christianity is a cult. If you wanna believe Christianity is a cult and billions of Christians and many who have PhD’s in religious studies from many reputable universities disagree with you that is fine. In your mind Christianity is a cult. I am not going to argue the point. I disagree and many others disagree too and I will let the reader decide and check into whether or not Christianity is a cult or not and come to their own conclusion.
I would like to discuss the second part of your comments. “that doesn’t make the cult true”. Doesn’t make it false either.
You seem to take the side of those who rejected Jesus in the gospels. They believed Him to be a cult like leader too, a blasphemer, false prophet and more than you think of Him. And yet He went to the cross for some of those who crucified and laughed and spit on Him with their words and more. Some of them had a change of heart later on in life much like this prolife atheist did and I believe and hope and pray for the same for you some day.
Take care for now. P.S. What is your favorite movie? Just for fun and curiosity sake.
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now, you present an argument from popularity logical fallacy and an argument from authority logical fallacy. That lots of poeple and smart people believe in a lie doesn’t make that lie true.
What makes the cult false is the lack of evidence for its claims, and the inablity of the cultists to agree on the most basic things in their cult.
As I demonstrated, your jesus is depicted as a cult leader. No evidence jesus existed, nor was cruxified or resurrected. The only one who wanted this blood sacrifice by torture was your god. I am quite happy to be responsible for my own actions. I don’t need someone tortured to death for me.
Yep, plenty of people have changes of hearts and that also doesn’t mean your nonsense is true.
Now, you claim to be praying for me to agree wtih you. Per your bible, true believers will get any prayer answered, with what is asked for, no exceptions or excuses and answerd quickly. I’ve had dozens of christians claiming they have prayed for me to do the same. Not one prayer has worked.
What’s the problem? is it: your god loves me as I am? Your god doesn’t think you are a christian? or your god doesn’t exist?
And my favorite movie? Depends on what kind. The Professional, the original Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Duck Soup, Blazing Saddles, Dr. Strangelove, are all favorites for different reasons.
You?
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First off, I was not making an argument. “I am not going to argue the point.” Concerning the cult issue. I decided to leave that for others to check out for themselves the many arguments for why many believe that Christianity is not a cult, and some do as you yourself do.
The post in the first place was not an argument. It was a post of an exciting fact from a Christian perspective that one came to trust in Jesus for their salvation. This is hardly an argument.
“doesn’t mean your nonsense true” nor false. Again, it wasn’t an argument.
“Now, you claim to be praying for me…” Yes, I do and have and will continue. “Not one prayer has worked.” Yet… :). Even the thief on the cross had his day at the very end and I just bet maybe someone was praying for him and clearly, he was playing the sinner right up till the end and Jesus is that good and merciful!
As far as evidence for the existence of Jesus and his crucifixion and resurrection I could refer you to some resources but let me refer you to first and foremost the eyewitness account of the Gospels. I would suggest by starting to read the Gospel of John with an unbiased and open mind toward Jesus (sometimes you will find that the words of Jesus grab your heart. Try being open to praying because who knows right, He may just be real?!).
There is yet another Gospel of Luke that starts off with these words:
“Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which FROM THE BEGINNING WERE EYEWITNESSES, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,…”
There is yet 2 other gospel that give very similar accounts of Jesus life, death, burial and resurrection and dissimilar enough to be counted as 4 separate witnesses to the same events.
Have you read these accounts with any openness of mind at all before and if you have can you prove to me that you have by showing how you reasoned thru these gospels yourself and have come to reject these accounts as true and why. Please do not go to some atheist web site I want your own God honest researched out opinion after honest study and read of the accounts. Maybe you have already done this. I would find your thoughts of interest.
As far as your movie list. The one I can relate to the most is Raiders of the Lost Ark. I remember that one well. One of the greats! I love Ford and the gun shot scene and what an adventure. And the respect for the Ark….LOL.
My favorite movie is a CULT classic…LOL. Just can’t help it. I bet you never heard of it or maybe you have as I would be pleasantly surprised. “The Addiction” by Abel Ferrera I believe. Has Christopher Walken (small parts) and Lili Taylor in it. A bit dark and low budget but very thought provoking in my view. I loved A Quiet Place, Pan’s Labyrinth, 1st two Hellboys if I remember right, and the recent Top Gun was over the top! The Chosen series is pretty awesome as some of those episodes put me in tears especially the first.
I’m going to have to check out some of the movies you listed that I have not yet seen. Take care again…
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TJ, you are arguing with me, no matter what you try to falsely claim that somehow you aren’t. You are trying to show me wrong.
and yep, you can’t show that your cult isn’t a cult, so you now make the false claim that everyone will “really” agree with you if they just read your claims. Unsurpisingly, you can’t support those claims.
You posted a claim, not an “exciting fact”. Facts have evidence to support them. You do not.
Unsurprisingly, you pray for me and nothing happens. As for that theif, it depends on which of your contradictory stories you read to get that answer. In every other gospel, the thieves ridicule Jesus. I’s always fun when Christians try to ignore those parts that don’t match with the false claims they want to make. No evidence anyone was praying for the thieves, but nice adding to your bible to make it less silly.
Yep, you could try to claim evidence for your jesus, and you’d fail. I’ve read the bible as a Christian and as not. I am very familiar with the gospels, and as I indicated above, I know how they fail to agree. They aren’t eyewitness reports, nothing at all supports this. The baseless claim in Luke fails wonderfully, since the claim of there being eyewitness is just a claim, which needs to be supported by evidence. Where’s that evidence, dear?
I’ve read the gospel of john, and with an open and unbiased mind, and it is still the same nonsense. Now, you’ll desperately try to lie about me and claim I didn’t, since that is all you have to convince yourself that I’m wrong. You need to claim that I couldn’t possibly have read the bible and not end up agreeing with you. Sorry, nothing magical happens when someone reads the bible.
I’ve also prayed for this god to show me that it is real. I prayed to not lose my faith when I was losing it many years ago. Funny how this god never shows up. It either doesn’t exist or is doing a great job of making you look like a liar.
I always like the beginning of Luke since it is rather obviously made up with a name of “Theophilus”, aka someone who loves god.
None of the gospels give the same story, so again you fail. The gospel of mark mentions nothing about jesus’ life before his ministry, and the ending is quite different from the others. Luke and Matthew mention all sorts of things for jesus before his ministry, and they don’t match, and their stories about the resurrection don’t match. John presents an entirely different jesus who isn’t bothered by being cruxified at all, and again the stories of the resurrection also don’t match the others.
yep, you try the lie about the “open mind” again, and surprise, that’s only so you can lie to yourself when I dare not agree with your nonsense. Then you try to set up another lie by claiming that I’ll only go to an “atheist website” and not give you my personal researched opinion. Well, dear, I’ve just given it. Now what? What lies will you invent to ignore my points?
I do enjoy Raiders of the Lost Ark since it shows just how much that story is nothing more than the fiction of a movie. It’s rather fun to see an ark that is powerful when, in the bible, the poor thing is just carted off, and this god does nothing at all.
Never heard of that movie. The idea of this god doing anything for anyone is a nice fantasy but only that, and it seems to only do something after allowing a lot of murder for no reason.
I did love the Hellboy movies with Ron Perlman.
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You said, “As for that thief, it depends on which of your contradictory stories you read to get that answer. In every other gospel, the thieves ridicule Jesus. I’s always fun when Christians try to ignore those parts that don’t match with the false claims they want to make.”
And, “I’ve read the bible as a Christian and as not. I am very familiar with the gospels, and as I indicated above, I know how they fail to agree.”
And, “Well, dear, I’ve just given it.”
Thank you, as I was curious to whether or not you have read the gospels and have come to your own conclusions without influence of any other biases. And I am not going to disbelieve you, but I am going to push the point in love not to be rude, OK.
I just would like to know when you came to conclude that the gospels contradict themselves at various points and I assume that is one of the reasons why you reject the gospels and there may be more but let us zero in on this point for now.
Did you ever have a resource at your fingertips like “A Harmony of the Gospels” by Robert L Thomas and Stanley N Gundy? All this book does is put all 4 gospel account side by side and try to put everything chronologically together with some really easy to reason thru possible scenarios of how these “contradictions” can be understood as not a real contradictions.
When you have 4 genuinely true different accounts of the same events you will not have them exactly in line with each other. If they are exactly the same you would be very sus of a conspiracy but clearly, they are significantly different enough to be so though this doesn’t in and of itself prove they are. I am not making this my whole argument but just making a point.
Now, a good example of this that you pointed out was concerning the thieves. Matthew and Mark tell you only that the two thieves mocked, Luke says only that one mocked and the other repented, and John says nothing about the thieves.
John may or may not have known about what the thieves said but didn’t choose to write of it or didn’t recall it or who knows but there are many other explanations than a real contradiction. This is the nature of real accounts of real events in real life though this is again not my whole argument proving that it was such but rather consistent with and just making that point.
Matthew and Mark reported that both thieves mocked Jesus and Luke said only one did. Is this really a contradiction or could both possibly be true?
When you read the gospels all together in a chronological manner the thieves did both mock Jesus as Matthew and Mark reports but then one of the thieves had a change of heart later. It is as simple as that. Peter later repented of his denial of Jesus. This guy must have mocked Jesus with the others and then realized at some point he was wrong. People do this all the time. I do it sometimes within minutes after doing something stupid wrong or sinful sometimes it takes me a day or more to admit and sometimes years later.
Either way God lets us confess, repent and turn from our mocking, rejection and laughing and spitting and sins that put Jesus on the cross in the first place for us. His nail scarred hands are and will continue to be open to you and others so long as you have breath to breathe. And you too can have a change of heart down the road.
Now, concerning the other thief who we have but to believe that he remained in his mockery of Jesus. I like to think that maybe after hearing the conversation with the other thief and Jesus that maybe he too repented and we will see both in paradise. That would be quite the twist and there would be no contradiction either. Whether he is or isn’t was between him and God, but I know without a doubt in my mind that if he did repent even after the first thief repented that he too went to paradise that day with Jesus.
Anyhow, please do check into “A Harmony of the Gospel” Copyright 1978 Robert Thomas and Stanley Gundry and there are other like Harmony of the Gospels out there too. That is just the one I have used throughout the years.
Concerning the Ark: “the poor thing is carted off, and this god does nothing at all.” I’ll let the watchers of the movie decide that one for themselves. I guess it depends on your worldview for that one.
Well, hey, we agree on one thing at least: “Hellboy”. I was blown away by the art and creativity. Guillermo Del Toro has been one of my favorites and yes Ron Perlman is a great fit for Hellboy. Pan’s Labrynth is also a Guillermo Del Toro. Devils Backbone is good and Dont be Afraid of the Dark. I like his earlier stuff. Later stuff is OK. But I am going to check out some of the ones you have mentioned because I am out of movie ideas as of late. Seems all is crappy lately. LOL. Take care…
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Yes, TJ, I wrote and supported all of those things. You push your lies to try to convince me of your cult’s nonsense. It has nothing to do with love.
I read the gospels, TJ and yep, they do contradict each other. So, I came to conclude this when I read the bible in its entirety. I have a very good memory and it became hilariously obvious that these anonymous authors of the bible books contradicted each other. I certainly wasn’t told that they contradicted each other by the pastors I’ve had. That’s what comes from allowing someone else to tell you what they claim is the “truth”.
I know that Christian lie and must “harmonize” their contradictory books, to try to correct their failures. Thomas and Gundy do nothing different than every other Christians who tries to fix their ignorant set of books. I do enjoy how it completely fails to make sense chronologically, since we have the same scene various times and they all have something different happening in them.
They are real contradictions. Let’s look at them, TJ. How about who went to the tomb and what they saw?
So, in Matthew, we have this:
“28 After the sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2 And suddenly there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord, descending from heaven, came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow. 4 For fear of him the guards shook and became like dead men. 5 But the angel said to the women, ‘Do not be afraid; I know that you are looking for Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here; for he has been raised, as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples, “He has been raised from the dead,[b] and indeed he is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see him.” This is my message for you.’ 8 So they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them and said, ‘Greetings!’ And they came to him, took hold of his feet, and worshipped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, ‘Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.’”
So, two women go to the tomb.
The stone is rolled back by an earthquake while they are there.
They see an angel sitting on that rock.
They never look in the tomb.
No disciples go to the tomb at all.
Jesus appears, is recognized and allows himself to be touched.
The apostles should meet jesus in Galilee
In Mark we have this:
“16 When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. 2 And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb. 3 They had been saying to one another, ‘Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance to the tomb?’ 4 When they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had already been rolled back. 5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man, dressed in a white robe, sitting on the right side; and they were alarmed. 6 But he said to them, ‘Do not be alarmed; you are looking for Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has been raised; he is not here. Look, there is the place they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see him, just as he told you.’ 8 So they went out and fled from the tomb, for terror and amazement had seized them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.”
4 women go to the tomb
The stone was already rolled back.
A man is there waiting for them, not an angel, outside the tomb, sitting to the side.
They never look in the tomb.
No disciples ever come to the tomb.
Jesus does not show up at all.
They never mention Jesus to the apostles.
Luke says:
“55 The women who had come with him from Galilee followed, and they saw the tomb and how his body was laid. 56 Then they returned, and prepared spices and ointments.
On the sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
24 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, taking the spices that they had prepared. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they went in, they did not find the body.[a] 4 While they were perplexed about this, suddenly two men in dazzling clothes stood beside them. 5 The women[b] were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, but the men[c] said to them, ‘Why do you look for the living among the dead? He is not here, but has risen.[d] 6 Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee, 7 that the Son of Man must be handed over to sinners, and be crucified, and on the third day rise again.’ 8 Then they remembered his words, 9 and returning from the tomb, they told all this to the eleven and to all the rest. 10 Now it was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them who told this to the apostles. 11 But these words seemed to them an idle tale, and they did not believe them. 12 But Peter got up and ran to the tomb; stooping and looking in, he saw the linen cloths by themselves; then he went home, amazed at what had happened”
The women are able to go into the tomb with no problem the dayof the cruxifiction. They see nothing special.
it seems that Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Susanna,are the women. The “other Mary” isn’t to be seen. This could be many more than 4.
The stone has been rolled back.
They go back into the tomb, and the body is gone.
Two men materialize.
They didn’t see Jesus outside the tomb at all.
They did go tell the apostles. They aren’t believed.
Peter is the only one to go to the tomb, and he evidently was so unimpressed that he just went home rather than confirming what the women said.
Then we finally have John:
“20 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb. 2 So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, ‘They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.’ 3 Then Peter and the other disciple set out and went towards the tomb. 4 The two were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent down to look in and saw the linen wrappings lying there, but he did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen wrappings lying there, 7 and the cloth that had been on Jesus’ head, not lying with the linen wrappings but rolled up in a place by itself. 8 Then the other disciple, who reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed; 9 for as yet they did not understand the scripture, that he must rise from the dead. 10 Then the disciples returned to their homes.
11 But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb. As she wept, she bent over to look[a] into the tomb; 12 and she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had been lying, one at the head and the other at the feet. 13 They said to her, ‘Woman, why are you weeping?’ She said to them, ‘They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.’ 14 When she had said this, she turned round and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not know that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, why are you weeping? For whom are you looking?’ Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, ‘Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.’ 16 Jesus said to her, ‘Mary!’ She turned and said to him in Hebrew,[b] ‘Rabbouni!’ (which means Teacher). 17 Jesus said to her, ‘Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”’ 18 Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, ‘I have seen the Lord’; and she told them that he had said these things to her.”
Only Mary M goes to the tomb.
The stone has been moved.
Mary goes to tell two of apostles immediately.
Mary is confused and says “we” when it’s only her.
The apostles have a foot race to the tomb.
The nameless disciple wins the race and then just looks in. He must bend down to do so, so it seems rather unlikely you can have a bunch of women and two extra guys in the tomb like the author of Luke claims.
Peter goes in and sees various bits of fabric, which don’t seem to match what was done to bodies in 1 century Palestine, with a separate cloth for the head.
The other apostle goes in.
Then they go home, not telling anyone else. This makes no sense when the next set of verses has the apostles terrified and in hiding.
Mary is still wandering around in the garden and looks in. She sees two angels. Jesus materializes behind her, and she has no idea who he is. He makes himself, known and tells her not to touch him. Then he says he’s in the process of ascending. She tells the apostles what happen, and they are still to stupid to figure this out.
These scenes are describing the same time period. I do enjoy reading harmonizations since it makes the whole thing hilarious since people are constantly running around, in and out of the tomb, telling and not telling things, etc. it would be appropriate to have the benny hill music playing.
There aren’t “4 genuinely true different accounts”, and that is hilarious that you try to lie so ineptly about that. They aren’t even somewhat the same, TJ. You seimply believe the lies of chrsitians who say they have “harmonized” them when that is not the case at all.
Yep, the gospels fail with the thieves too. You try to make up yet more excuses, TJ. The bits from the thieves contradict each other and make quite a problem with the lies of Christians that people go to heaven the day of their deaths, that one can be forgiven, etc.
Your attempt to claim that the author of John just didn’t bother fails since, as I have indicated above, you lose part of your religious nonsense. These gospels were never meant to be together and this is why they make such a mess of things. It’s like how christgians try to explain why no one but the author of matthew noticed those dead jews wandering around Roman-occupied Jerusalem. As if that would have been not reported by the others if their stories were about the same things.
Yep, it is a contradiction, but nice excuses, TJ. The gospels are four different stories and cannot be read in a chronological manner since again, they were written at different times for different audiences. There is nothing at all to show that the thieves mocked jesus and then one had a change of heart. Why didn’t the other writers note that since that is important to Christian nonsense of forgiveness? You say “must have” and that is just made up by you in your desperate need to make your ignorant nonsense make sense.
There is no “either way”, there can be only one way if this is supposed to be taken as a true event. Your god doesn’t allow people to confess, with both jesus and paul saying that this god has already damned those who it didn’tn allow to accept it.
Yep, you are making this all up and say so with your “I like to think that….” Which shows that you simply add what you want. Hmm, doesn’t the bible say not to add to it? It’s rather like watching people try to retcon any fiction, from Star Trek, to Star Wars, to comic books, when an inept writer creates plot holes.
Curious how your bible just can’t figure out if it wants to claim tht people go directly to heaven or not. Again, more contradictions, TJ. Your nonsense in Revelation says that no one goes to heaven until the nonsense of lake of fire, etc.
Yep, lots of books full of lies out there, TJ. I’ve read them in my attempt to not lose my faith. They failed miserably.
I do like it that when you have nothing to rebut my points with, you again try to pretend that people will “really” agree with you when nothing shows that to be true. Hmm, why wouldn’t your god simply set those angels of the ark to kill *all* nazis? Your god does nothing, dear. The Holocaust shows that quite clearly.
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I had a response and then my computer shut down, but my response was pretty much the same as in this video.
https://youtu.be/ewwOpVGS7yE How many women went to the tomb?
I had some added possibilities as to why a gospel writer might mention some names and not others, but this video does just as good a job if not better than what I was going to type.
The video is only like 8 minutes so probably take as much time to watch it as it would be to read a post I typed.
What are your thoughts?
We can then go on to the other supposed contradictions if you like. Anyhow, take care for now. I am tired and am heading to bed. Laters…
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yep, that video has the same lies as any apologist. IP is a known liar. And there is no ancient literally practice of “spotlighting”. That’s something that christian invented to excuse their nonsense. Unsurprisingly, these christain liars can’t show any other example of this supposed “practice”. It’s very amusing to see claims of Plutarch as “spotlighting” when Plutarch doesn’t change what happens in his stories like the gospel writers do.
Yep, the apostles aren’t mentioned at being at the cross since they were supposedly hiding. Of course, the gospel writers can’t get that straight either since Luke has this:
“50 Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and, lifting up his hands, he blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he withdrew from them and was carried up into heaven.[p] 52 And they worshipped him, and[q] returned to Jerusalem with great joy; 53 and they were continually in the temple blessing God.[r]
and then John has this “9 When it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, ‘Peace be with you.’”
which version is the lie?
it is fun to see IP constantly couch his claims in “probably” showing he has no idea what he is talking about, just adding nonsense like you do.
this is a great bit: if mark was unaware of joanna but luke
5:44
was aware of her from another source
5:46
luke could feel safe mentioning her
5:47
because he had independent verification
5:49
from another source that was unavailable
hmm, weren’t these written by “eyewitnesses”? Seems not per IP, which contradicts other christian claims.
You simply make up things, TJ, adding to your bible when your god evidently couldn’t make it make sense.
Again, it’s not just the number of women, it’s four entirely different stories in each gospel. Why are different people in the tomb in the same time period? They can’t all have been in there at once in what is claimed by the ignorant authors.
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I think it is pretty clear just by reading the Gospel of John’s account that some form of spotlighting is going on. You don’t have to call it that if you don’t like that term but John by recording Mary’s words knew there was more than just Mary and yet he records only Mary went. There is no contradiction here. Sorry.
“Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and WE know not where they have laid him.” Notice the WE! So just because John gives no hint of the others we know there was others and that John knew there were others by his recording of her words.
What I am discovering about you is that you can’t even acknowledge these easy to resolve supposes “contradictions” are not contradictions at all.
A real contradiction as the video pointed out would be that Matthew says ONLY Mary and the other Mary went and then Luke says Mary and the other Mary and whoever and others went.
And about the thieves: I do believe that has been answered and I have nothing else to say but let the reader decide for themselves. But it is not a contradiction as both could have happened as people do have changes of heart quickly especially in a desperate situation like this would have been.
Your only decent response is a criticism of why didn’t Mark and Matthew report this? I don’t know. I could take some possible guesses, but it doesn’t change the fact that both can be true. Here is a guess: maybe Matthew and Mark had reported what the eyewitnesses reported to them what they saw: those eyewitnesses couldn’t stand the mocking and were highly distraught as many would have been, and they left at that point right after the thieves and everybody was mocking and that is all that they heard. Maybe they didn’t leave but just heard that part and then they turned to comforting others and were still at the cross but attending others in tears or arguing or who knows what distracted them. But there were still others there that Luke happen to be investigating that were at the scene and getting the story from them that heard of the change of heart that the one thief had. Maybe they never heard the first mocking’s but only came in on this second mocking to which the one thief rebukes the other. I mean there can be so many possible scenarios. This is not a contradiction. This is what happens when you have many different witnesses reporting on the same event. You have differences in accounts, but they should not contradict each other but rather give a whole, better and greater picture of what went on from different perspectives assuming everybody is being truthful.
You can keep saying I am a liar, and all apologist and Christians are cult followers and liars, but this is not true of most Christians I know of nor of myself. Since you believe Christianity is a cult then you label all of us as cultic (so be it, what can I do, you believe what you believe) but to label us all as liars is a form of ad hominem if you ask me. Reveals to me that you are biased and very unopen minded and not going to treat me fairly but it’s all good. I have learned in this conversation to not expect fair shake and so I won’t, but I felt like it was a bit much and needed to be lovingly discussed but from here on out I will continue to ignore this and stick to the discussion at hand.
I enjoy talking about what I believe to be God’s Word and I understand you believe Jesus is the greatest cult leader of all time it appears though maybe you think somebody else is. But remember that if Jesus is not a cult leader (and He is who He says He is) you are not in good shoes right now. You are hardly on good terms with the One who came and bled for you so that you would be made right, and all your sins dealt with. You could be calling your Savior a cult leader. You could be calling God a cult leader. You could be encouraging others to be doing the same. You are not on good terms with Jesus and He is the One you need from my perspective. And so, I must point this out but in love for your everlasting soul from my perspective anyhow which I understand you reject for now.
I know you probably already know this but if someday down the road you come to some Biblical sense remember the thieves on the cross and the one that must have had a change of heart if there is not to be a contradiction. His story could be your story down the road. Jesus is that good! It doesn’t have to be on a death bed it could be today, tomorrow or some years or months from now. He can take the name calling!
He is so awesome to walk with in this life here and now and I am looking forward to PARADISE when this life is done. Though I wish to live it for now! I hope to see you there too and I like to hope and believe that I will but that is between you and Jesus not for me to decide.
And I am going to continue to pray for you ….LOL. Take care for now
P.S.- I do not agree with everything that IP puts out. They are interesting videos and thought provoking and some points are great like the video I linked you too. I think he makes great points in that video, and you don’t. Oh well… 🙂
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TJ, you believe in nonsense that says bats are birds, so your opinion doesn’t count for much. There is nothing to show that the story in john is the same story in the other gospels.
These are not easy to resolve, TJ. Unsurprisingly, we have that one mention of “we” and then we have no mentions of the women hanging around while Mary meets jesus and doesn’t recognize him.
Why not? You also have the problem that the rest of the story doesn’t match the others, one women or many.
The gospels again vary wildly, so we do have one saying 2, one saying 4, one saying an unknown number and one saying 1. You still fail.
And you’ve made up things yourself to explain the thieves contradiction, so it has not been “answered” at all. You just added nonsense that is not supported. It is a contradiction since some of the gospels say that the thieves never accepted jesus, and one has that one of the thieves accepted him. NO change of heart is shown and that would be quite important to your religion to support its theology. Most chrsitians ignore the gospels that don’t have a convenient conversion. I wonder why?
It is a contradiction: “ to assert opposite of : take issue with” – merriam webster no matter how many times you try to lie that it isn’t.
Now, TJ, would you accept the additional nonsense that Mormons, JWs, etc add to your bible to make it makes “better” sense like your additions are trying to do? I’m guessing not. You are just one more Christian hypocrite.
All of my responses are “decent”, you simply lie otherwise. Yep, you now claim you just don’t know, but you can make up nosnesne for everything else, TJ. You could invent nonsense but can’t since I know your bible better than you. Nope, contradictory claims can’t both be true. That is literally impossible.
you again try to retcon your ignorant bible, making up scenes that never happened, not even in your bible. You unsurprisingly can’t accept that your myths are complete nonsense, and no one needs to make up excuses for them since they are simply ignorant nonsense made up by people ust like you, TJ.
People take small claimsm of knowledge and then have to invent stories to make them make sense. You start off with a story of a cult. Then when the stories of the cult don’t make sense more details are added to cover up the holes. Rather than just a confused jewish guy, we get a magical man who somehow comes back from the dead, despite the utter lack of evidence that this ever happened.
I can make up things too. These cultists were upset that their leader failed and died. They wasted their money and time on him, so they need to double down on their claims and now rather than just a human, this fellow beomes god himself. He “ascends” to heaven, to explain the lack of a body, which is quite like the lies of Jehovah’s Witnesses when Jesus didn’t bother returning when they predicted, and then they claimed that he did return, only he was invisible.
People left the cruxifction early, and surprise, jesus didn’t “really” die, right. They didn’t see him literaly die so the lies start.
Yep, you have to make up lots of things, TJ. I know why. And again, yep it is a contradiction since you mus invent other nonsense to correct the contradiction.
No reason at all to assume everyone is truthful at all. Again, your presuppositions fail, nothing more than the desperate words of a man who needs to pretend he has the only “right” way to avoid death.
I can show you are a liar, TJ, and yes, all apologists are cultists and liars, who make up nonsense to fix a book they claim was written/inspired by an omnipotent being, who fails miserably.
You also show you have no idea what an ad hominem logical fallacy. That’s when a totally unrelated claim about the opponent is used to try to cast doubt on their claims. This is not the case here. Showing you are a cultist is immediately relevant to the discussion of your religion. I’m am not, for instance, claiming that since you smell bad, no one should believe you.
There is nothing loving about the lies regarding an imaginary being that requires me to be dead or worse for not agreeing with you. You have no evidence, dear, it isn’t a matter of fair or not. And when claiming fairness, do think about your god who murders kids for actions they had no control over. You don’t want a “fair shake” you want your lies accepted with no evidence at all. Funny how I know you wouldn’t accept that from another theist who disagreed with you.
Yep, you enjoy talking about your version of Christianity, like all Christians do. Jesus is imaginary, but he is presented as making typical cult leader claims: abandon your family, abandon all you have, cut off your genitalia, only you are theh chosen ones, etc. He’s nothing different from Jim Jones, that nutcase who ran Heaven’s Gate, etc.
Then you offer pascal’s wager, the baseless nonsense that I have something to lose if your god exists and that you have nothing to lose. You forget that you lose resources, time, pissing off a god if you get the wrong one, etc. You find you must make excuses for your cult leader as you have above. No one bled for me at all. The only one who wanted this blood sacrifice by torture was god/jesus. It could have simply said “believe in me, and we’re good” but nope, this god is nothing different from every other bronze/iron age god in its thirst for blood.
I have nothing to lose at all. If there is no god, then I don’ waste resources or need to lie. If this god is good, then it would understand why I would not believe in it. If it is the idiot in the bible, I wouldn’t worship such a thing at all. I’m not scared by silly sadistic fantasies about eternal torture. That nonsense is false. Alas, poor Christians can’t even agree on what this god considers a sin, so you are all making up nonsense in order to try to scare people into your cult and to keep people in it.
I don’t need ot be on “good terms” with your imaginary friend, TJ. And I’m quite happy if someone finds my arguments valid.
No change of heart, just a lie from Christians about how people can be “saved”. There is no “down the road”, TJ, no matter how hard you pray. As for your poor impotent god being able to take name calling, funny how “once upon a time” didn’t take it at all and simply murdered people it got pissed off with. Funny how it can’t do anything now.
Each Christian claims that their version of jesus exists and not one can show this to be true, so your claims of walking with imaginary friends fails just like the claims of other theists that you discount fail.
As usual, you try to distance yourself from your vicious god when it comes down to it. You insist that it’s jesus that wants the torture and death, not you. You are quite like those fellows in Nuremberg who said that they were just “following orders”. You are responsible for what you want to happen to me.
it’s always great fun to watch Christians try to use prayer as a weapon, and fail miserably.
I know you don’t agree with everything another Christian puts out. You, again, all make up this garbage in your own image, each sure that only they have the “pure” Christianity. You and IP can’t support your claims. Nothing new there. “oh well”.
Igt’s always great fun to also watch how some christians think that the gospel of John is the only one to pay attention too. Funny how that anonymous author forgot thngs like the scene in Gesthemane, the lord’s prayer, etc.
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Something you said at this point was of interest me as You said, “It could have simply said “believe in me, and we’re good””
I was like no way. This would be most unjust. This is why Jesus had to die in our stead. He had to make things right. Balance the scales of justice.
Our sins must be paid for if we are truly sorry for our sins. The punishment must fit the crime. If I take a person’s life, then the punishment for doing so will reveal how valuable the life of that person I took was.
Let’s say that I stole your car and proceeded to wreck it. And I come to my senses and realize what I did to you was wrong and feel bad about it. Should I just say sorry and then think all is good and fine? Should I just say I believe in you and think all is good? I mean these are nice things to do but there is something grossly missing if I am truly sorry and want to fully make up for the sin I had committed against you. To balance the scale of the injustice I committed against you.
What would that be?
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TJ, it’s nothing new for a Christian to be sadistic enough to think that someone else needs to be tortured to death for their sins. There is no justice if someone else is punished for what you did. But do tell me: would you think it just or fair if you were punished for something I did? If not, then your need to have someone tortured to death for you is not just or fair. Your god is nothing more than a typical sadistic tyrant. It’s nothing special for a tyrant to punish people who did nothing.
This is why I find your cult disgusting. Your analogy fails rather ridiculously well in showing just how unjust your cult’s nonsense is. Yep, it’s YOU who should make amends, not someone else. To match the nonsense in your religion, your analogy would need to have you, the one who wrecked my car, require someone else make amends to me for “wrecking my car” rather than yourself.
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Yes, I am the one who should make amends, and I should then go out and PAY THE PRICE for a brand new car and pain, suffering, loss of use, etc., etc., etc. to make it as if I had never taken your car in the first place if I were truly sorry.
So my only point was that what Jesus did was absolutely necessary, and many of the ancients probably understood justice, atonement, and righteousness better than our modern-day mythos of evolution and random chance and nothingness that made all things.
There is no reason to seek justice as no wrongs are really being committed at all if we are all but stardust. But I am not here to criticize the modern-day scientific mythology that everything came from nothing, and life from non-life, rationality from rocks over billions of years, etc., etc., etc., and all the other stuff you have to believe in classes today to get a degree…lol. OK, I am making a criticism in passing, so it is fair for you to rebut.”
But this is a separate issue altogether. Now my next question is: How do you and I pay back sins against God? If I steal a 1000 dollar car from you, then I need to pay back 1000 plus whatever loss of use and pain and suffering, etc., etc. But if your car was a Tesla, it would show that I am not really sorry if I thought the 20000 in my bank account could cut it.
I would have to go out and borrow the funds and then work for as long as it takes to pay off the loan. At least you would be properly taken care of.
So, even though this is not a perfect analogy, but depending on how much you value God will determine how terrible your sins are against God. God, to me, is beyond value and infinite and invaluable, etc., etc., etc., and I don’t believe I will ever have enough in the bank nor anyone else be able to make goods on the funds. I will have to work for all eternity as my God is that awesome to me.”
“In other words, it will have to take something equal to Him to even finally PAY OFF ALL that I owe Him over the many, many, many sins I commit daily and count them up over my whole lifetime. God only knows. Like 1 a day for 365 for 70 years is like 25,550 and some or more or less heinous, but that is enough for me to think something needs to be made right with me and God. (Mind you that that is only counting 1 a day).
I dare not judge myself by the standard of other sinners, for I would look like a saint next to Hitler, but I am Hitler next to Jesus. And I must judge myself not according to what I think is right or wrong but what the lawmaker or God Himself says is right and wrong.
So, I do not believe you nor I have enough funds in our banks nor in all the world’s banks to PAY OFF/AMEND/ATONE/OR MAKE OURSELVES RIGHT with our amazing Creator.
So the only way our sins can be atoned for is if we borrowed from an eternal bank, and that bank would be Jesus. We will never be able to fully pay Him back, and maybe that is where the analogy fails, and we will forever be in His debt, but the debt has been paid!
Now this is but an analogy and all analogies do fail at some point or another, but let me say one last thing.
If you think you can amend yourself before God, then you are
1) devaluing God thus really trusting that God is less valuable like an idol or something
2) or have way to high value of yourself and your value as if you could pay this somehow equating yourself to the value of God thus making yourself equal to God which is a place only for Jesus and you sure don’t want to be found there on the day of judgment. This is lucifers pride right and just like he found out so will you find out that you are hardly equal to God Almight.
And you must reject this idea of God altogether cause if any of this is true you have alot to owe God and will have some amending to do and right now you seem to be quite happy doing it yourself which is an impossibility or only possible if it takes you an eternity to do it.
But Jesus is your answer, and what He did at the cross is absolutely necessary. Trust Jesus day by day. All your questions and skepticism will be answered as you day by day trust Him.
But God does resist the proud. Gotta get rid of Satan’s pride one day or other. And He gives grace to the humble. The wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life.
Take care for now
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Yep, so your needing someone else to pay the price shows you are a coward and a poor little irresponsible Christian. Thanks for underlining that so well.
I do enjoy when a Christian has to lie to cover up how his claims failed, TJ. You’ve shown that what jesus supposedly did was just you needing a scapegoat, since you are too much of a failure to be responsible for your own actions. Justice, atonement, is not done by someone else other than the person responsible for the action. Substitution again shows that there is no fairness or justice in your cult.
it’s great to note that you refused to answer me, TJ, when I asked if it was fair or just if you would be punished for something I did.
Evolutionary theory has nothing to do with justice and fairness. That is a moral idea that humans have invented. Alas, TJ, we have plenty of evidence supporting evolutionary theory and the big bang theory. You have nothing for your nonsense.
Unsurprisingly, you try again to lie and fail miserably. Morality is a human thing and there is plenty of reason to seek justice and fairness, since we are empathic creatures and we also have self-interest. It help civilization work and those ideas of fairness have bene around far longer than your ignorant cult.
It’s good you aren’t here to criticize modern science since you simply lie and show your personal ignorance about it. I do enjoy when a Christian is so lazy and cowardly that you don’t even know about what you try to attack. Poor hypocrite, you have no problem with science when it makes you comfy. You just try to lie about it when it shows your imaginary friend doesn’t exist.
Yep, you try to ignore my questions, little fraud. How can I repay back sins against your god? Well, since there is no god, and Christians have no idea what this god considers a sin, it’s a rather amusing moot point. Again rather than you paying back anything at all, you need someone tortured to death for you tp pay *for* you. Your god set it up that way, per the very silly bible. Humans who invented this garbage made no sense as typical for them. They have a god that requires eternal payment for finite things. That makes no sense, dear.
Yep, you would have to borrow. YOU. Not someone else. Again, we see the cowardly and selfish Christian.
It’s even more fun to see you randomly declar that sins are gauged if you believe or not in this imaginary nonsense. Always good to see chistians making up their own version of their nonsense. Per your own rather ridiculous claims, your god makes it that no one can actually repay it. What do you call that? Oh yes, a loan shark.
Happily, no one commits “sin”, since that is just a lie made up by your cult. You aren’t Hitler next to jesus. Your jesus commits genocide too, per your book of fairy tales. And yep, you make a lovely sycophant to a tyrant, when you give up your ability to know right and wrong in favor of blind ignorance and faith.
I’m happy that I’m not so disgustingly greedy as Christians are and that I don’t have some vicous god who stacks the odds against humans. No debt has been paid since there is no debt.
Your analogies always fail since your cult is nonsense, TJ. I don’t need to “amend” myself before your imaginary friend, TJ, whatever that is supposed to mean. Your god is worthless, being imaginary, and even if real, is a vicious and petty little thing.
if I am responsible for something, then I expect to be held accountable, no matter what. I don’t need to “borrow” from the loan shark to pay the loanshark. I, and you, are worth far more than your disgusting little god.
Yep, I reject your nasty little fantasy altogether, and I own nothing to imaginary nonsense. The only thing that made the blood sacrifice by torture necessary is your silly god, dear. No one else required it or wanted it. And funny how your god had to work with satan to make it happen.
That’s very silly.
Now, why hasn’t this god killed satan, dear? Supposed thousands of years, and this god can’t do anything about the ol’ debbil? Why not? It’s like why batman never kills the joker: the story would stop and then were would pastors and priests be in making their money?
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In my view you devalue God and lift yourself up way to high.
You think little of your sins because you think little of God. You believe that you actually can pay off all your sins against our amazing and invaluable Creator God. Now, sure if God doesn’t exist or a puny god exists (which is no god at all) then there are no sins to pay off or maybe you could pay off your own sins.
But look at this MASSIVE universe. If God exists, He is not a puny one. Get anywhere near that Sun and you will soon find out. And that is just one in who knows how many billions. So, I know you don’t believe in God but you got to at least admit if one exists He is not one to be thought of as puny and so any theist should be thinking hard about Salvation from their sins and Jesus.
And if God (of Biblical value and proportions) does exist then you got a Big eternally distressing issue, and it will take you all eternity to pay off your sins. Cause God is way more cool then you think He is. And you are not as cool as you think you are.
Or you can trust in Christ amazing perfect work paying off your sins that you could not do on your own cause you have disqualified yourself from being able to do so in 2 ways:
1) the one I already mention (God is way more valuable than you think He is) it is an impossible debt to pay off without paying it off for all eternity which is exactly what you will be doing and sure pay it off on your own if you like but God has better plan for those who value Him more.
2) all of our works are tainted with sin. They are really all that pure as they are mixed with good and bad deeds and motives and what not.
I understand you like the pharisees and religious leaders of Jesus day hated this message. That we aren’t righteous enough to earn heaven nor pay off our sins that we need God’s help in this and Jesus is that help. We must trust Him or we will never get the salvation we need. He is our Salvation. And He is Big enough to take our sinfulness and saves us from it.
Now feel free to share with me a piece or two of evidence evolution.
Philosophically speaking though. Let us assume evolution is true. If we are but chemicals bouncing around (which I agree in part that we are but if this is all we are) then what does it matter if a bunch of chemicals knocked off another bunch of chemicals. What was so wrong with what Hitler did? He was just a bunch of chemicals knocking out a bunch of other chemicals and then he got knocked out by a bunch of other chemicals.
I mean nobody calls out Flourine as morally selfish for hogging electrons. Flourine does what flourine does and it would be most absurd to punish flourine for hogging electrons. So why would we punish a bunch of chemicals for knocking off other chemicals as that is just what chemicals do. How does one get morals from chemistry if we are nothing more than a bunch of chemicals and neurons and electrons and synapses and blood vessels and cellular structures and skin and bone and left and right eyeball and brain and serotonin etc etc etc.
All these things just do what they do they aren’t moral or immoral and thus how can anyone do anything wrong in this naturalistic/materialistic view of the world. Really, if everybody were consistent with this worldview we really should have no civil society. No laws, no calls for justice, no looks at disgust at racism, or what any man or woman does ill to any other man or women.
We are just Flourine doing what Flourine does.
Anyhow, take care for now…
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I have no problem “devaluing” imaginary nonsense that does nothing and Christian lies that cause real harm. All it seems you are upset about is that I dare devalue *you* and don’t give you the external validation you crave.
Again, no sin, since no god. Christians can’t even agree on what a sin is, each with your own lists. Happily, no one owes your imaginary friend anything at all, TJ. All your impotent threats are based on something that doesn’t exist, TJ.
Every cult tries to claim that the universe is evidence for their god. Funny how not a one of you can show this to be true. The sun isn’t evidence your god exists. It is evidence that physical laws work. Your god is puny dear, ignorant, vicious and quite a hilarious failure, always needing to work with its supposed archenemy. You make your god something you cannot show it to be.
And nope, no one needs to think of your particular god and salvation. I do love how each cultist thinks that only their god exists.
“Biblical value and proportions”? You mean this god who can’t handle iron chariots, who can’t find adam and eve, who lies to humans and tells them that hailstones are in magic warehouses? Yep, your god isn’t impressive at all, nothing more than a typical bronze/iron age human invention.
And why would it take “eternity” to pay off finite sins, TJ? Your god isn’t “cool” at all, just a petty genocidal lunatic, who kills people for things they didn’t do and who approves of slavery to the point of telling slaves to never seek their freedom.
Don’t need to trust in a failed sacrifice either, TJ. A sacrifice is a permanent thing. Your imaginary messiah’s bad weekend wasn’t a sacrifice at all.
1. Your god is worthless.
2. There is no sin.
The reason that the jews didn’t listen to Christians is because per their silly books, he failed to be the messiah promised. So your nonsense fails yet again. Their nonsense is as silly as your nonsense.
It’s always great fun when a christian is too lazy and cowardly to learn about evolutionary theory himself. You cannot show it wrong since you have no idea what it says. Evolutionary theory is based on the observed concept that the environment will select for attributes that allow an organism to exist and reproduce in that environment. This means those attributes will be passed on to descendants. If this happens often enough, organisms will diverge to fill different niches.
Antibiotic resistant bacteria are evidence of evolutionary theory. Genetics point toward a universal common ancestory which is also evidence for evolutionary theory.
You will of course invent some lie to ignore both of these.
Of course, you again lie and fail with your appeal to morality to support your claims about your imaginary friend. Unsurprisingly, Christians also can’t agree on what morality their god wants, each contradicting the next. Not one of you can show that your list of morals is “god approved”. You all certainly love to lie and claim that though.
Morality is a human invention and is subjective, based on empathy and self-interest. Happily, it can change and I’m not stuck with the ignorance and violence of humans from a couple of thousand years ago. You are.
Morals are often common, since they help civilization work. Humans aren’t just “chemicals” we are social animals that interact with each other. Your ignorant simplicity is nothing new. Morals are rules on how we interact.
Christians have two problems, one I mentioned above where they can’t agree on what morals their imaginary friend wants. The second is that you all have no problem with your god doing things that you would be horrified if a human did the same. Your morality is subjective, dependent on who someone is rather than any objective morality associated with an action. Your morality is nothing more than might equals right.
It would be more impressive if you could actually spell fluorine. Humans aren’t an element, so your analogy fails yet again, TJ. Nothing like a good ol’ apples to oranges bit of ignorance. We don’t know yet how consciousness arises completely. We do have a good handle on why morality exists and how it exists. All you have are god of the gaps fallacies.
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“And why would it take “eternity” to pay off finite sins, TJ?” You can only say this because you are trusting that God is as puny or non-existent as you believe Him to be.
Antibiotic resistant bacteria prove that man evolved from them somehow? How so? So bacteria changes to become resistant to some antibiotics this doesn’t cause me to have to have to accept that somehow, I evolved from bacteria some millions or billions of years ago. As far as I know antibiotic resistant bacteria and non antibiotic resistant bacteria is bacteria!
Dogs can be bread from small to big, long hair to short, etc etc. This is only variation within a kind. You never see a dog become anything other than a dog no matter how much time you a lot or many times you breed dogs over how many years you like too. There is a good experiment for evolutionist! Take a dog and breed it and breed it and breed it and breed it……and I bet all you get is a terrible outcome of a dog. You will only go from better to worse unless you introduce a better breed into the mix or recessive gene of somesort from the dogs past but remember the gene was already there not anything new or evolutionary in my view.
I have a chorkie and I don’t care how many times you breed a chorkie with a chorkie, yorkie or chihuahu you will never get any evolution toward a wolf from these breeds. But you may be able to breed down say a wolf over 100’s of years and get a chorkie but never the other way around. “Evolution” if it works at all works against itself not for itself. At best you get variation within kinds but you never get a man out of a monkey. Maybe you can get a monkey out of a man but never the other way round. LOL. Just being silly but makes a point. If anything evolved from the other the monkey evolved from the human like the chorkie more likely evolved from the wolf than the other way around (though I am not sure if this is how it happened). Now I do not believe monkeys came from humans as I believe monkey are of the animal kingdom and humans are created in God’s image but if I were to believe in evolution I would believe monkeys evolving from humans was more likely than the other way around.
Genetics point to a common designer just as easily. God uses similar material to make life out of, much like electrons, photons, quarks etc etc at subatomic levels. This to me is evidence of common designer of life not common ancestry. A great and most excellent read on this subject can be found here at https://answersingenesis.org/store/product/replacing-darwin/
“Morality is a human invention and is subjective…” is murder subjective? And why be empathetic? Why not be unempathetic? Is it objectively morally wrong to be unempathetic?
What is “a human” if he is not created in the image of God but a result of random chance mutations. What one randomly mutated from bacteria human being does to another randomly mutated from bacteria human being means absolutely nothing good or bad. Do we yell injustice at bacteria when bacteria does what bacteria does? All you got without God is random chance and what happens in a random chance universe has nothing to do with justice, morality, love, right and wrong, empathy etc etc etc. Throw the dice up in the air. There is nothing wrong with how they land. They just land where they land. I never called anyone immoral for rolling dice in Yahtzee. Serial killers, serial killer. People who help people cross streets do just that. But nothing good or bad about either. There is no morality if at base we are just tossing dice and randomly mutated bacteria up into the air as there is no rhyme or reason to our existence and why we should preserve our meaningless existence or anyone elses.
You call me a liar. Who cares given your evolutionary world view of no god? It’s all random chance antibiotic resistant bacteria evolution. I go to the same grave as you go to. In the end it meant nothing. Morality, justice, all our talk, means absolutely nothing in your view of the world. I don’t even know why you argue with cultic people anyways? What does it matter in the end or beginning? Oh but somehow it means so much here in the middle. Really? How so?
Take care for now….I hope you come to trust that God is bigger than you think He is now. Cause whatever it is that is causing you to think He is puny and thus your sins are no big deal and thus you do not need Jesus is not a good thing at all. And I say this in love…Laters.
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Of course, you can’t answer my questions, TJ. You just try to bluster through with your imaginary god. Again, why would it take an eternity, aka an infinity, to pay for something that is finite? One has a limit, the other has none. Why does any quality of your god make it necessary for it to punish people for eternity for finite actions? Is it just so petty and miserable?
And unsurprisingly, you are typically ignorant when it comes to evolutionary theory. Antibiotic resistant bacteria aren’t evidence that they somehow evolved into humans. Antibiotic resistant bacteria demonstrate how evolution works, and no, dear, not everything has to evolve into humans. As usual, the Christian must keep himself ignorant about evolutionary theory to cling to his cult. You can’t address the reality so you must attack a strawman.
Yep, as “far as you know” which means you are using nothing more than personal ignorance as an excuse for your nonsense. Evolutionary theory doesn’t say that organisms will necessarily change kingdoms (the biological term).
Yep, dogs evolve and humans are the main environmental pressure on them. We select the qualities we like, and even if those qualities are detrimental, like the distorted faces of pugs and bulldogs, human effort keeps them alive despite that. Humans have bred various canids to change them. You can look up this article “Foxy Behavior: how a Russian fox farm uncovered the basis of canine domestication” and see how evolutionary theory works. Unless the genes are entirely missing, one can breed to increase any attribute. Your “bet” is just your ignorance again. Your view is dependent on your laziness and ignorance.
Yep, people bred chihuahuas and yorkies and by breeding them, you have something different. And that breed can be changed by selecting for longer hair, being bigger, etc. Just like evolutionary theory states. And no reason you can’t get something very like a wolf, eventually. It just takes time, like most evolution takes.
You claim “kinds” like any ignorant creationist and creatinists have yet to show that their lies are supported by reality. As usual, you again show your ignorance by claiming a monkey is an ancestor of humans when monkeys, apes, and humans came from a common ancestor and evolved to fit different niches. No reason evolution can’t work both ways. You just stamp your foot and think your baseless lies are to be accepted with no evidence.
And it’s no surprise that you do actually believe the lies from creationists, and since you just aren’t smart enough or educated enough to understand evolution doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Humans, apes, monkeys, cats, dogs, etc are all animals. We are also mammals and give milk like any cow in the females of the species. We have hair, and sweat, and feces, and vomit and are nothing magical or special. Yep, I’m sure you would think monkeys would evolve from humans since you have no idea about what you attack.
Genetics point to a common designer? How? Why does your god need to use the same material? Is it so limited? And if genetics are designed, was your god simply a moron or malicious when it created DNA that fails often and fails horribly? No surprise that you reference the liars at Answers in Genesis. Jeanson is a rather poor liar, despite his having a doctorate. It’s also notable that AiG forces anyone who works with it to sign a contract that doesn’t allow any diversion from their baseless lies. And we can also see what real scientists have to say about Jeanson’s garbage:
““If humans design things in a certain way, then perhaps God might as well. This logic leads to testable scientific predictions about the pattern and relative hierarchy among extinct and extant species.” (location 2060)
Except that God is under no obligation to design anything as a human being would because omnipotent Gods are not limited as humans are, they do not have the same purposes as humans do, unlike humans they are not constrained by history and don’t have to borrow from the designs of others or design collaboratively. There is nothing about an appeal to an inaccessible, supernatural, omnipotent agent that is testable and what if it were? If Jeanson is saying that Biblical creationism is indeed a testable hypothesis then he is saying that he can conceive of some potential evidence that would falsify Biblical creationism. This claim is in direct odds with the statement of faith from Answers in Genesis and Ken Ham’s own words on this subject that say that no conceivable finding would lead to rejecting a literal interpretation of Genesis. Jeanson may however be saying that his model is testable within a young earth creationist framework. He seems to want to have things both ways; he wants a testable scientific model and an infallible, literal Biblical interpretation, but in doing so he is requiring anyone interested in testing his hypotheses to adopt his particular religious convictions a priori.
When Jeanson says that creationism and design hypotheses predict the data with “equal force” to common ancestry and that “Darwin’s evidences fail to eliminate competing explanations” he is completely wrong (location 2075). He seems to think the only argument against common design formulated by “evolutionists” are appeals to “bad design” (location 2075) or “vestigial” traits (location 2106). He says that trade-offs in biology are due to a designer balancing “several competing design purposes” (location 2122) implying a designer under constraint. But why would an omnipotent designer have to deal with these trade-offs and constraints? Jeanson goes on to say that one can get along fine without one of their hands (tell that to someone who struggles with loss of a limb however) and therefore evolution would say that two hands are vestigial (location 2122).
This is the typical nonsense of Jeanson throughout the book. He discusses emergent, environment-dependent population level phenomena in terms of individuals. You perhaps may be able to point to an individual amputee with no impediment, but in an environment with no technological help, individuals with missing limbs will perform, on average, more poorly relative to those in the population with both hands. Mice that have experienced an amputation or hindlimb disability when kept separately experienced very large louse loads and could only maintain lower loads by allogrooming [27]. Desert Bighorn Sheep released after amputation generally had lower survival and reproduction than their intact counterparts [28]. It should be obvious that two limbs are relatively more advantageous compared to one limb, especially in the wild. “ – “MAKING IT UP AS HE GOES ALONG: A REVIEW OF REPLACING DARWIN PART 1” Herman Mays, Jr., PhD.
and another review of Jeanson’s nonsense:
“Jeanson’s point here is that since traits are defined genetically, and since species are defined by traits, the origin of species is fundamentally a genetic question. The punchline is basically: ‘We didn’t uncover the physical basis for heredity until 100 years after Darwin wrote On the Origin of Species, so how could Darwin have had any hope of getting evolution right?’ Despite the fact that Darwin was ignorant of the nature of inheritance, he was still able to infer his conclusions from observations of how living organisms changed over successive generations and inferences about how organisms now preserved in the fossil record changed over geological history. The question of the origin of species requires genetics to provide a complete explanation, but that’s doesn’t mean that the question can’t be partially answered. If someone asked me to explain how a car engine works, I would only be able to explain it at a very shallow level. Not understanding the minute engineering details or combustion chemistry of the process doesn’t negate the broad facts that I do know. Of course, Darwin only explained the process of evolution in very broad terms, that’s why modern Evolutionary Biologists continue to do research to understand the details.” – “Reviewing “Replacing Darwin” – Part 2: Darwin Didn’t Know About Chromosomes!”
I’m sure you think that book is great since you have no idea what it is saying since you know nothing about evolutionary theory.
Then you give more silliness. The definition of murder is not subjective; humans agree on it. That one person kills another is not subjective. The moral right or wrongness of murder is indeed subjective. We are empathetic, it is not a choice. Some people have chemical problems in their brains so their empathy is altered, again, not a choice of theirs. Nothing is objectively wrong or right, dear.
A human is an animal, a mammal, that has a particularly large and complex brain, that walks on two limbs when everything is working. No god needed. Humans aren’t a result of “random chance” as ignorant creationists claim. The laws of physics aren’t random. You keep repeating ignorant lies, TJ. That’s because you have no evidence for your nonsense.
Humans aren’t bacteria. I do love how more and more incoherent you become when your lies aren’t accepted by me. Again, we have unique brains, so we have empathy and thus can perceive what we would and wouldn’t like to have happen to us, and we can grasp that another human might feel the same. Still no god needed.
Nope, bacteria just do what bacteria do. Humans don’t have real free will, but we have a pretty good illusion of it So we can and do hold each other accountable so that society works. No god needed. Humans have invented justice, morality, love, empathy, and again, no god or TJ needed at all. As for justice, funny how your god has none, killing people for actions they didn’t do and had no control over. TJ, would you find it just if you were killed for something I did?
It’s great how desperate you are, TJ. There is morality, and funny how chritians can’t agree on what morality their god wants, nor can they show it is objective. But do show that, dear. Surely you can, right? Show me that your god exists and agrees with you and only you.
No one needs your cult to have meaning either. Humans also make that up for themselves and each other.
Yep, you are a liar, dear. I care since your attempts to lie to me are attempts to interfere with my ability to make a informed decision. Your selfish ignorance affects me. Yep, you’ll die just like me and your ignorant sadistic little fantasies will never come true. Evrythign means something, and yep, even if no one remembers me or what I did in a 100 years, doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean anything now. Again, your poor cult tries to use fear to get people to join it. Alas, it doesn’t work with me.
I show your lies for what they are since they affect me, dear. It’s always great when a Christian tries this argument to desperately convince the atheist to not show their lies as what they are. I reveal, revile and ridicule your cult and your lies.
Sorry, TJ, but a liar who thinks I deserve death and eternal torure for not agreeing with his little fantasies is lying when he claim he wants me to “take care” and that he “loves” me. You claimed to have been praying for me to agree with you and when I showed you how that fails, now all you have is a vain hope since you know your prayer will fail miserably. You try to threaten me and do so impotently since your nonsense isn’tn true. Evidence is what shows me your god is imaginary and indeed, puny, just like you.
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Again, if I am only worth $1000 and I steal $10,000, I need to pay back 10 times my value to make all things right. Again, it all depends on how much you value the Creator as to how serious your sins are against Him. This is why many people get car insurance and why many states require car insurance.
You trust that God is puny or nonexistent, and so you find the penalty of sins against God (who in actuality is not puny nor nonexistent but is invaluable) as offensive. But this is only because you are believing that God is puny or nonexistent.
Antibiotic resistant bacteria is still bacteria period. It means nothing as to whether or not we evolved from bacteria even given millions of years.
Dogs are still dogs. So no evidence of a dog becoming a non dog in a way that supports bacteria to man evolution but does support the Genesis of “kinds”.
You really should read the Jaenson book for yourself. If anything, it will give you a better understanding of how most of what evolutionists believe fits quite well in a Biblical creation framework.
“Humans don’t have real free will, but we have a pretty good illusion of it so we can and do hold each other accountable so that society works.” – you said.
So when one murders another out of pure racial hatred, then this is all an illusion and nothing really wrong at all. That is what you’re left with without God.
This is what you end with in this atheistic way of explaining justice and morality.
But with God, you have an objective outside moral standard to actually start to make a non illusionary judgment call that wrong is wrong and right is right and to define what is right or wrong.
Take care for now
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So, TJ, per your bible, what is a human worth? If it isn’t worth anything, then christian claims about this god valuing us are false. Your personal value makes no difference in how much you have to pay back. You pay back equal to what was taken. Insurance isn’t what you are worth. It is what someone else might be worth.
I know that your god is non-existent. That you think people need to pay back an infinite about for a finite amount of harm is hilarious, TJ. That’s not just or fair. But I already know your cult isn’t about justice or fairness when you have no problem with your god killing kids for things they didn’t do.
And TJ, you again show how ignorant you are about evolutionary theory. Thanks for showing how your cult needs willful ignorance and lies to exist. It does indeed matter when you lie and make claims that we somehow evolved from antibiotic resistant bacteria.
Youi of course were too cowardly to look at the articles I cited since your cult can’t withstand the truth.
I have looked at Jeanson’s book dear, and nice trying to lie that I haven’t. I know that creationists like you and him lie and claim that evolution fits into their cult’s nonsense. Your ignorant myths claim that everything was already formed as we see it today. It wasn’t.
You really should read the Jaenson book for yourself. If anything, it will give you a better understanding of how most of what evolutionists believe fits quite well in a Biblical creation framework.
Yep, someone murders someone out of hatred, it is because of their prior experiences, mental health issues, etc. Our choices are influenced, so there is no true free will. I didn’t say hatred was an illusion dear, but nice try to lie about that too.
Again, TJ, is it just or fair if you were to be killed for something I did? Yes or no?
Alas, no objective morality from this god since you and your fellow theists can show this to be true. You each lie and claim your personal list is what this god approves of. I’m still waiting for you to show me your approval from this god, TJ. Where is it?
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and this sentence “. Insurance isn’t what you are worth. It is what someone else might be worth. ” shoul dhave had “and your god isn’t worth anything, being imaginary.”
If your god is with an infinity, then a finite harm against it would be so small to be ignored.
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You are trusting that God is worth nothing and I am not and that is why I believe what I believe and why you believe what you believe on this issue of sin and Jesus.
There are other reasons to. Like God is a personal being that we are created in the image of that make our sins against Him and others unique in that He is infinite in value and we somewhat finite though we will eternally exist (so that is something to grapple with here) but if you care about God then you should care about your sins against God. You don’t care so you seek not a remedy. But in your conscious I believe you know better. You should care about these things but you really don’t so you settle for evolution or any explanation besides God. But you are believing this none the less.
Now, tell me exactly how change within a kind doesn’t fit in with the Bible. Dogs variating (if that is a word) with dogs and staying dogs doesn’t at all prove macroevolution. Same goes for the bacteria. Creationist have no problem with microevolution but have yet to see evidence of macroevolution. The bacteria to man type evolution doesnt happen in our view but by faith via evolutionary theory.
Remember, that Ptolemy’s (if I spelled that right) was the reigning cosmology for like 2000 years and has since been proved wrong. I wonder how many believed in this view over God to find out they were wrong for doing so for all those years. And evolutionary theory is barely 150 years old! You are choosing to trust this as much as anyone ptolemist or Bible believer from the last 2000 years has.
And yes I have read Jaenson’s book and in case you are wondering I am still praying for yah. I can tell this ain’t the time but like myself and the thief and many many many others there came that time… 😀
Take care for now
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TJ, until a theist like you can show that your god merely exits, I do indeed trust that your god is worth nothing at all, being imaginary. You believe in nonsense that you can’t show to be true, just like any other theist.
No evidence your god exists or is a “personal being”. You assume that is the case because of one old set of books. You make up your own list of “sins” and claim some imaginary being agrees with you and will torture anyone who doesn’t agree with you.
You try to lie and play pretend you are telepathic. No, dear, my consciousness doesn’t agree with your lies, no matter how you desperately hope I do since you crave external validation.
Chrsitians love to make up garbage about their bible. You’ve invented that “change within a kind” is in your bible since you can’t deny evolution. But your bible has that all animals were on the ark, not just some progenitor “kind”. And it’s great to see Christians lie about what this word means from the Hebrew, when it means a species of animal, nothing else. And species is last of how we define animals from each other: kingdom, phyla, class, family, genus species. If your nonsense was to be accepted, we’d be back further along the taxonomy.
Creationists like you can’t agree on what lies you want to tell nor can you convince each other of your lies. You accept evolution, but other creationist don’t so nice lie there, and you have to pretend there is a difference between the mechanisms of macro and micro evolution. There aren’t. IT’s great to see creationists following science since it never happens the other way around. You’ve already lost in your lies.
Yep, ignorant people believed lies that weren’t true. They still believe lies that aren’t true, like you do. Your ignorant bible has the earth being flat and the sun circling it so you have nothing to brag about. Your ignorant bible was the Ptolemaic system, without even the idea of epicycles.
Then you try to lie and claims that since evolutionary theory isn’t an old theory, that magically makes it incorrect. Sorry, dear, we can do much more research now in a much shorter time, so your fallacy fails as usual.
Yep, you are still praying and still failing like any impotent cultist. Alas, your bible promises any prayer answered, and answered quickly. The door is opened immediately, the mountain moves immediately into the sea. You are simply a failure.
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You said, “one old set of books”. Yep, just like Jesus did. This “old set of books” is quite the set. Jesus said of His words that would be recorded that: “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” – Matthew 24:35.
Which is predicted in many places in Isaiah well before Jesus was born. He also, said concerning those who would take His gospel to the world:
“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” – Acts 1:8
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” – Jesus Matthew 28:19-20
And lo and behold here we are today this truth continues to march on in the hearts of many like mine and I am praying like yours in His timing.
“He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.” – Isaiah 53:11
Maybe you will be of the “many” that is spoken of here in Isaiah prophesying what the messiah would do when He comes.
“And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.” – Isaiah 49:6
“He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;” – Isaiah 42:4, 6
He has yet to fail! Concerning the New Testament portion of those “old set of books” you do know that we have preserved ample more times the manuscripts of those books than any other books that I am aware of in the history of manuscripts.
And if Yahweh was just one of a pantheon of gods from the ancient Near east He sure did fair ampletimes better than the others which is quite consistent with the NT manuscripts and how they faired. You can say it’s all chance but I dont think so. Or rather you can trust that it’s all chance but I don’t and so those “old set of books” are far more than any other “old set of books” and so why? Chance or providence. I trust to one and you trust to the other.
One faith glorifies God and the other condemns one’s own self. But one thing to always remember and why I continue to pray for you and rely upon that which can be extracted from these sentences from that “old set of books”
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD:” Ephesians 2:8
AND
“Jesus answered and said unto them, THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” – Jesus John 6:29
AND
“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” – Matthew 16:17
AND
“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.” – Matthew 11:25
AND
“But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.” – James 4:6
I came to a time in my life where I was humbled in coming to an end of myself and so I became more open to Himself and I do believe it was God’s working in my heart and some day I am praying for the same for you. God makes sense of me and the world around me and Himself though I do not get it all. Evolution, random chance, materialism, the other gods pail in comparison and so I believe what I believe. I am trusting myself to Jesus. He is pretty awesome and I love walking with Him and loving Him back for what He did for me at that cross as recorded by those “old set of books”. What a set!!!
And you are so obviously stubborn and prideful toward any openness toward Jesus for now. But so was the thief on the cross…lol. Take care for now
I say this in love not meanness I hope you do know.
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TJ, you keep repeating your same nonsense and have yet to show your version of the Christian god merely exists, much less will do anything at all.
I do enjoy that bit from Matthew 24, it’s also in Matthew 5, and unsurprisingly, Christians ignore it since it says they have to obey *all* of this god’s laws until the heavens and earth pass away. Funny how they are still here, and you guys just pick and choose what you want to claim your god wants you to do.
Alas, Isaiah doesn’t predict jesus. It predicts a jewish messiah, and jesus doesn’t fit the bill. That’s why there are still Jews. Unsurprisingly, not one of you self-professed Christians can show that the “holy ghost” exists or “comes upon you” since not one of you can do what jesus promises to his true believers. You are evidently all frauds, TJ.
Christianity is not one thing, with the many many contradictory versions out there, with again not one those sects being able to show it is the only “right” one. So, which version has to be spread around the earth? What I enjoy is that Christians try to convert each other to their version. My former church sent people to covert Christians in Australia, Romania, etc. Funny how both of those places have plenty of christianities of their own.
So much for Christian claims of some “truth”. And again, os much for your prayers that always fail, TJ. You have few possibilities of why you fail so miserably: your god likes me as I am, your god doesn’t think you are a true believer, thus you are damned, or your god doesn’t exist. Which one is it?
Gee, and still spewing bible verses that don’t fit your imaginary messiah. As always, chrisians just pick and choose ignoring context when they want to.
Nope, not part of the many since your god is imaginary. I do enjoy when Christians lie about their supposed “prophecies”, just ignoring the parts that don’t fit their nonsense.
The jewish messiah doesn’t need a do-over. And copies of lies don’t make lies true. Nice fail there, TJ.
Unsurprisingly, this god of yours has not faired better at all since there are dozens, if not far, far more, contradictory versions of it invented by humans. It’s not chance, it’s just humans making up lies as you Christians continue to do. Christian cultists can’t agree on how to interpret that old set of books, and you’ve killed each other over that. Happily, secular laws keep you from doing that most of the time.
There are many faiths, e.g. versions of Christianity, that glorifies some god, and yep, those cults also condemn each other.
Yep, some Christians think that grace is what saves you, and other Christians find it is works, or belief etc. Your version is no more true than the rest; and you all claim that only your version is the truth. Yes, dear, your bible does indeed repeat nonsense. That doesn’t mean it is true.
There’s nothing “humble” about ignorant humans claiming to speak for some god.
You are just one more cultists, TJ, and you aren’t impressive at all. I’m sure you do believe in your nonsense just like any other cultist believes in theirs. You aren’t any different from a Muslim, a Hindu, a Jehovah’s Witness, a Wicca, a Mormon, etc. Their gods make sense to them, and gee, you are just as sure as I am that they are wrong.
You appeal to personal ignorance when it comes to things you claim are false for the sole reason that you are too ignorant to understand them. You show again that you must lie about evolution since you must lie that it requires “random chance”. You can’t show your god exists, so no reason to doubt materialism. And your baseless nonsense of claiming that other gods “pale in comparison” fails since you can’t show your god exists at all.
yep, you are trusting yourself to your cult. No surprise there. You don’t walk with anything, TJ, you just make these lies to make yourself feel important, like every other cultist.
I am indeed stubborn when it comes to dealing with the lies of cultists. You are upset that I dare not to agree with your lies. Funny how your gospels have those thieves on the crosses making fun of your imaginary friend. Again, you’ve made up additions to your bible, dear. You are, per your bible, damned.
You say everything in ignorance and the petty and sadistic hope that people who don’t agree with you will suffer. That’s not love, little wannabee abuser.
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You said, “Alas, Isaiah doesn’t predict Jesus.”
I quoted many verses that show Jesus fit the bill and has for the last 2000 years. What other messiah has been “a covenant” and a “light to the gentiles”. What other messiah has become God’s “salvation to the ends of the earth”? What other messiah “bear their iniquities” of those he “justify”.
Anyhow, I will leave you with Isaiah 53 for now in hopes that you see how the what Jesus did is foretold here in Isaiah 53.
“Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.” – Isaiah 53:1-12
Mind you, this was written many, many years before Jesus was born and the Isaiah scroll was amazingly preserved. For good reason!
And this is the Gospel! Believe “the report”!
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You haven’t TJ. You simply make the same false claims that so many Christians do. Unfortunately, your imaginary messiah doesn’t exist, and you are simply one more cultist who has nothing.
Only your silly book claims that this messiah existed, and was some “covenant” and ‘light to the gentiles”. Nothing shows this to be true. You start with presuppositions that aren’t true, just like any cultist. A Muslim would claim much the same “what other prophet blah blah blah”. Your jesus doesn’t bear anything at all, being imaginary.
Isaiah 53 again fails to match your silly jesus myths. Christians can’t decide if they want to claim how lauded and honored jesus was when he was supposedly alive, or to claim how despised he was. This jesus repeatedly opened his mouth when “afflicted”, but nice try to lie about your gospels and what they say. And hmm, this jesus did violence in the temple, per the stories.
Again, repeating baseless nonsense doesn’t make it true.
Yep, your rather bizarre imaginary god does like to do some sadomasochism with itself/jesus. Happily, I have no need for some blood sacrifice by torture to “pay” for my actions. My actions are my own and I don’t need a scapegoat.
Curiously, jesus has no children aka “seed” either.
Yep, Isaiah was written long before the nonsense of your jesus and unsurprisingly doesn’t match those stories either. I have no need to believe your silly nonsense.
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Fair enough friend. Take care for now…Laters. But I will be praying for yah!
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aka TJ has nothing and cna’t support his lies. Again, we see that christian cultists fail.
And funny how his prayers still fail, despite his bible’s promises.
Again, TJ, why does your bible/god do its best to show you to be a liar?
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Yep, praying and failing like every other cultist. Thanks for being a great demonstration on how either the bible lies and/or that cultists are frauds.
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